COEUR d'ALENE - It was kind of like waiting for the ball to drop in Times Square.

Only replace the champagne with hot cocoa and granola bars, the lists of resolutions with tallies of discounted electronics, and the gleaming ball with neon retail lights.

But the energy of the crowd near midnight? The same.

As Thursday's hours waned, hundreds lined up like human barricades outside major retail outlets in Coeur d'Alene, prepared to stampede toward Black Friday sales at the now prevalent midnight openings.

"It shocked me at first," said Rena Gould of stores backing up sale times. "But I think it's going to be easier. It gives me time to go to other places opening later."

The Bayview resident and her family skipped sleep to drive to Shopko and line up two hours before the 12 a.m. sale.

A worthy sacrifice, she said, to afford Christmas gifts for a family of seven.

"One year, we saved about $400," Gould said with a grin.

Armed with a legal pad listing the big deals, Jennifer Bickle arrived at Shopko three hours early, making her a shoe-in to save on clothes for her kids.

The Hayden woman was not seduced by the midnight openings, she said, which she deems a portent that Black Friday will soon become Black Thursday.

"I feel bad for the employees ripped away from their families on Thanksgiving to put up with people like me," she said.

Meaning aggressive Black Friday shoppers.

"If you're smart, don't do it," Bickle said. "There's pushing, shoving. People try to take things out of your cart. It's ruthless."

So in case folks were wondering, earlier hours doesn't mean less crazy.

Mobbing door-buster sales with the rest of the nation on late Thursday and early Friday, many North Idahoans scored deals on jewelry, clothes and electronics.

But first they had to suffer for it, enduring rain, wind and unhappy driving conditions.

Several had pitched tents outside Best Buy to nab the Sharp 42-inch LCD TVs for $200.

First in line at quarter to midnight was Dolan Valenzuela, 16, looking weary after camping out for over 24 hours.

"I had a job over the summer and saved up my money," Valenzuela said, adding that he had killed time in line by napping and chatting up other obsessed shoppers. "I wanted the TV for my room."

The rest of his day was firmly set.

"Just plugging in my TV and start playing games," Valenzuela said.

Ronald Deucher, camping in line since 8 a.m., said he had been grateful to receive leftover turkey from a Meals on Wheels driver.

"People have been very helpful and friendly," Deucher said. "Would I do it again? No."

Waiting for Target's midnight opening, Jay Myers said he was unsure the cold and the early sale hour were worth all the Christmas gift savings.

"It took me away from my Thanksgiving time with my family. Being here at 8 p.m., when I would usually be with family," Myers said. "But it was my choice. No one put a gun to my head."

Kim and Richard Frymire, veteran Black Friday shoppers, agreed it was much easier to stay up late than get up at 3 a.m. to procure a new TV.

"We're probably going to get what we came for," Kim said, noting their place at the front of the line. "There's no guarantee when you're in the back."

The same applied at Kohls, where throngs waited for the doors to open at midnight.

Sheila Oetting, who arrived an hour early with her shopping partner, Kelli Shanholtz, said they planned to bulk up on items for a needy family that her own had recently adopted.

"That's the whole reason we're out here," Oetting said. "We're hoping to get lots of blankets."

An hour before Fred Meyer's 5 a.m. sale, many customers remained in their cars as the wind howled.

But Cody Edwards and Levi Berezay stood stoically outside the store doors, sans jackets.

What's a little suffering, to obtain an Xbox 360 for half price at $200?

"I may be wearing shorts, but I'm determined to get what I want," said Berezay, 20, who drove from Spokane to get the best price on the game system.

Edwards, also from Spokane, found that running three miles around the parking lot had warmed him enough.

"About 40 minutes left!" the 18-year-old announced, watching employees walk around inside.

The spoils of their mission wouldn't be enjoyed until later, Berezay said, adding that he had to go to work in a few hours.

Edwards had other plans, too.

"I'm definitely saying sleep," he said.