At the end of this month, Grant MacLean will be retiring as spiritual care coordinator for Hospice of North Idaho (HONI). Formerly pastor of Faith Presbyterian Church for more than two decades, MacLean has been a strong influence in the North Idaho faith community.

Over the years he has served on the Kootenai County Task Force on Human Relations and been a pivotal person in the construction and development of a shared-worship facility between Faith Presbyterian and St. Mark's Lutheran churches.

His involvement with Hospice dates back almost 20 years to his early days there as a volunteer and board member.

What is your definition of "retirement?"

You know, the way I tend to sign off my name is "with you on the way." Biblically speaking, people are where they should be when they're on the way.

For me, we keep on growing until we die. I think it keeps life interesting to be on the way. There's always the chance of spotting something new around the next bend - of learning something different.

I feel really blessed to be in this community and don't have any plans for leaving. I plan on deepening the friendships I already have.

You've had a long career in the ministry. Did you always want to be a pastor?

When I was young, I played catcher in Little League and wanted to grow up to be a baseball player, but I peaked with that idea in eighth grade. After that, I thought "electrical engineer" sounded pretty cool, even though I wasn't exactly sure what the words meant.

I ended up majoring in psychology and knew I had always liked counseling.

And where did faith fit into your life?

My faith development began in grade school. Church was a friendly and familiar place for me.

During my freshman year in college - Stanford is not a religious place - JFK was assassinated. There was, however, a church in the middle of campus and when I started to figure out what the news reports were about, I just ducked into that church. I was 2,000 miles from home and didn't know a lot of people. That church was my shelter from the storm.

Part of my experience at Stanford was discovering that faith and psychology are not that far apart.

Did you go directly into seminary after getting your undergraduate degree?

I went into the Peace Corps first and ended up in Brazil, which I loved. The music was a big part of that - there was such a huge enjoyment of life there.

My role was to try to help people help themselves. I went to their homes and said, "What would be a good project for you and your neighbors to work on?"

Did you enjoy your seminary experience?

Going into seminary was a way for me to focus on pastoral counseling. I thought I'd be able to use my faith and my psychology to be helpful to people.

I saw myself as being a pretty good guy who wanted to do what God wanted me to do. I also assumed God would go along with whatever I was wanting to do.

I think I understood spiritual growth as having an important psychological piece to it, not to mention the political-socio-economic context of it. Holistic care for people is what church ought to be about.

After seminary, where did you take your faith?

A friend and I were going to start a summer camp for inner city kids and their parents. We bought some land in Point Arena, Calif., and hoped we'd get a grant to subsidize it.

We lived on the land there while I looked for work. I went to the Presbyterian church in Ft. Bragg, Calif., and told them I knew counseling and family therapy and would be an asset to their church. He turned to me and said, "Timber's down, fishing's down and try the guy in Mendocino."

So I went to the church in Mendocino and talked to them. And they said, "Timber's down, fishing's down, but if God wants you here, we'll make it happen."

For me that was a conversion experience. I felt I was going to do what God thought was best and that God wanted me to connect with the Mendocino church.

Why did you leave?

I was there eight years and the camp hadn't worked out. In 1984, I had a call to a church in Hayden Lake. The former choir director in Mendocino contacted me and said that they were having a great time in Hayden and "We think you're a good fit."

And were you a good fit?

I was a pastor and that was God's will. Having made the choice to listen to God rather than asking God to listen to me, I said, "OK. Cool."

I found in Faith Presbyterian Church a congregation that was willing to stretch themselves in significant ways - to be pastoral to each other in caring for each other and in caring for me. Being loving and supportive.

The congregation formed in 1980 and had had kind of a rough time of it. They hadn't grown as fast as they'd anticipated and when I got there they were meeting at the Yates Funeral Home.

In what ways did your decades-long association with St. Mark's Lutheran Church enhance your faith?

Working together was an important event. I got to learn about different ways of worshipping that were very good. The Lutheran connection was definitely good.

I think the tendency for religions to be exclusive is unfortunate and destructive and probably goes against what they believe.

Six years ago when you accepted your current position with Hospice, how did you decide on your job title?

When I first got here, I thought the word "chaplain" had connotations that would pigeonhole me. So I asked people to call me a "spiritual care coordinator." But then I discovered that that title put some people off, so I told the staff that if there's a patient who looks like they've been harmed by a previous experience in church - and who doesn't want to talk with anyone religious - ask them if they might be interested in having "the guy that sings" visit them. And that guy was me.

Has your Hospice experience been everything you'd hoped for?

I've really enjoyed being able to talk about spiritual matters with people from a variety of religions - as well as those with no religion - and to do it respectfully and productively. I feel like I've learned to speak a variety of religious languages here and to make people feel more at home.

I've loved the patients and the staff. I've also loved the experience of touching the sacred. To me, death is a sacred thing.

What's next for you?

There are some other things I need to try out and my wife and I are also going to take some time to do nothing. I've got 14 grandchildren that I'd like to become more involved with.

I feel in some ways that there's a new context out there, a new environment. I also think I've got some good wisdom and experience to share.

My wife, Carol, has been important to me in keeping me honest with myself and honest with this notion of listening to God. I think that's hard to do on your own.